Famiy Members of Sex Offenders

Forgiveness and Trust

Remembering Chana Weinberg

Rebbetzin Chana Weinberg: strongly condems any form of abuse

Chana Weinberg passed away on January 23 2012 at the age of 85.  She was known for her advocacy work with Jewish women who were survivors of domestic violence.

After my experiences of living in the orthodox world for over a decade, I am aware I'm going to catch some flack for what I'm about to write -- yet I feel it's important to say.  Just like anyone else, Chana Weinberg was human and made mistakes.  She was also an extremely powerful and influential woman in the Baltimore Jewish community. Not only was she the daughter of rabbi Yitzchok Ruderman, who was one of the founders of Ner Israel Rabbinical College, she was also the wife of rabbi Yaakov Weinberg whose brother, rabbi Noah Weinberg was the founder and director of Aish HaTorah

Chana Weinberg passed away on January 23 2012 at the age of 85.  She was known for her advocacy work with Jewish women who were survivors of domestic violence.

After my experiences of living in the orthodox world for over a decade, I am aware I'm going to catch some flack for what I'm about to write -- yet I feel it's important to say.  Just like anyone else, Chana Weinberg was human and made mistakes.  She was also an extremely powerful and influential woman in the Baltimore Jewish community. Not only was she the daughter of rabbi Yitzchok Ruderman, who was one of the founders of Ner Israel Rabbinical College, she was also the wife of rabbi Yaakov Weinberg whose brother, rabbi Noah Weinberg was the founder and director of Aish HaTorah.



Chana Weinberg was someone who I once met, after the Vaad of Baltimore issued a statement regarding sexual abuse.  Chana was loved by so many that it is difficult to write about the other side of her.  The truth is that both she and her husband caused so much harm to those who were allegedly molested by her son, rabbi Matis Weinberg, by doing nothing and allegedly covering up the crimes.
The first allegations made against Matis were made back when he was around sixteen years old.  He allegedly was the leader of a gang of boys who went around molesting other boys on the campus of Ner Israel.  His parents response was to send him away.

In the 1980's his family arranged for him to be the Rosh Yeshiva (dean), of a high school in Santa Clara, CA.  The school had been thriving until the fall of 1983 when students began to come out with allegations that they had been both physically and sexually abused by rabbi Matis Weinberg, and that he had cult like practices.  Within a few months after the disclosures Yeshivat Kerem shut down.  The status quo back in the 1980s is not very much different then today.  No police reports were made, instead the rabbonim handled these types of allegations internally and as quickly and quietly as possible.  The yeshiva's closing was perceived as the result of financial difficulty.

The agreement was made that Matis would never teach at a yeshiva again, yet in 2003, new allegations of sexual misconduct were made again against Rabbi Matis Weinberg.  This time in Israel. As a result Yeshiva University terminated Yeshivat Derech Etz Chaim's affiliation with the S. Daniel Abraham Joint Israel Program after discovering "compelling evidence" that a rabbi integrally associated with the yeshiva has a history of allegedly sexually abusing and engaging in cult-like behavior with his students.

According to the New York Jewish week's article, "Panel To Hear Charges Against Prominent Rabbi", "Rabbi Weinberg noted that while he was physically demonstrative to his students, often hugging them, it was never in a sexual way.  "I don't get a hard-on" from such encounters," asserted the rabbi, who is married and has a large family."

Upon further investigation of the happenings of the 1980s one can see that right after the allegations of sexual offense Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg and Rebbetzin Chana Weinberg felt the need to protect their images.  It was around that time that Rabbi Weinberg got involved as the Jewish legal advisor for the organization "Jews for Judaism", which is an anti cult / anti-missionary group and Rebbetzin Weinberg started her crusade in assisting battered women, with the organization “CHANA”.

As a result of the allegations made against Matis Weinberg back in the 1980s he was banished from the campus of Ner Israel and relocated to Israel to be closer to his uncle Noah.  Over the years there were rumors, yet could never be substantiated, that Matis Weinberg received a stipend to stay away from the campus.  According to reliable sources rav Weinberg was rarely seen publicly at family events.

When the 2003 allegations of sexual misconduct were made public along with Matis Weinberg's past history of alleged child molestation back in the 80's, his mother (Chana Weinberg) and sister, Dr. Aviva Weisbord spoke with Phil Jacobs, who at the time was the editor of the Baltimore Jewish Times.  In his article "Condemning Abuse: Weinberg family takes action to protect victims of abuse," Chana Weinberg was quoted as saying "We strongly condemn any and all abuse by anybody against anybody at any time in any place in any form."  Aviva stated, The Weinberg’s, along with the rabbis, plan to produce a central phone number that can be used by those who feel victimized so that cases can be heard and investigated. "The idea is to protect people and to make them feel they can come forward".

At the time a spokesperson from The Awareness Center pointed out that there are inherent problems with the approach of dealing with allegations of sexual abuse suggested by the Weinberg’s. We are firm believers that in any community (including the observant world), when an individual suspects child abuse and/or neglect, they should be mandated to call child abuse hot-lines in their community immediately. This will insure that evidence does not become contaminated.

Calling law enforcement officials is the only way to be sure that there are no cover-ups or biases. This is one way to insure that individuals do not investigate allegations against friends, colleagues, and/or family members). Child Protection workers are highly skilled, highly trained professionals who know how to collect forensic evidence to determine if a case is valid and/or if there is enough evidence to press criminal charges. Child Protection workers know how to do forensic victim-sensitive interviews with victims of all ages (without accidentally asking leading questions).

It makes sense that various Jewish community may want to develop some sort of liaison relationship with the child protection agency in their area. This is one way to insure that the workers have an understanding of our cultural differences For the sake of our children, we need to use the systems that are in place.

It's too bad that over the years that Rebbetzin Weinberg and other officials at Ner Israel were unable to do the right thing when it came to protecting children on their campus and throughout the orthodox community in Baltimore.

Suggested by the author:

• Rabbis Investigating Allegations of Sexual Offenses
• Clergy as Mandated Reporters
• I Don't Believe You!
• When A Family Member Molests: Reality, Conflict, and The Need For Support
• Rabbis, confidentiality and other ethical issues for survivors of sexual abuse

The Day I Found Out My Husband Was A Child Molester

The Oprah Winfrey Show - January 13, 2006 Friday

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Ellen Rakieten

HEADLINE: The day I found out my husband was a child molester; women discuss finding out their children were being molested by the men they loved

Unidentified Man #1: Six, five, four...

Unidentified Man #2: Ready tape, ready music.

Unidentified Man #1: ...cue Oprah.

OPRAH WINFREY: The manhunt for a notorious child rapist ended in her living room.

Who was the eight-year-old girl that got your husband caught?

Ms. LEANNA PERRY (Ex-wife Of Serial Rapist): My daughter.

WINFREY: You didn't have a clue.

Married to a monster.

MARILYN (Stayed Married To Her Sons' Molester): He raped my son.

WINFREY: You did stay married, right?

She loved him until she walked in on him.

Ms. JODY LYNN BOWMAN (Killed Boyfriend Who Molested Her Daughter): I opened the door and I just couldn't believe my eyes.

WINFREY: What did you see? You shot him.

Ms. BOWMAN: I shot him.

WINFREY: Dead.

Ms. BOWMAN: Dead.

WINFREY: Next.

I have one intention behind this show today and that is that somebody of the millions of you who watch will see something that snaps you into reality. What you're about to hear is going to make you sick, but I urge you just to keep listening. This is a real recording of a serial pedophile. Fifty-seven-year-old Wayne Chapman is said to have molested over 50 children, so listen as he fantasizes while studying potential young victims.

Mr. WAYNE CHAPMAN (Pedophile): (From audiotape) School bus just passed me with a load of kids in it. I wonder if there's any boys in there. Here comes two boys now. One of them look pretty good there. Ooh, boy, would I love to get into his back end! Some of them scream, `It hurts, it hurts,' others, `It feels all right.' You know what that means then they say it feels all right, it feels all right, man.

WINFREY: Police say that Wayne Chapman recorded his own twisted thoughts so that he could relive his sick fantasies over and over again. More than once Chapman was arrested and sent to prison. He has served his latest sentence and is being considered now for release, and he's going to be living in someone's neighborhood, make no mistake.

Child molesters are cunning and they are coming after your children. What would you do if you walked in on someone you loved molesting your child? This is Jody's story.

(Excerpt from videotape)

WINFREY: After two failed marriages, Jody wanted to make a new life for herself and her two daughters.

Ms. BOWMAN: I had moved a thousand miles away for a fresh start. I had just bought a home. I was raising two beautiful children, and I was happy. I met a man named Jeorgie, and I just fell totally in love with him. I felt that God had sent him to me, that he was my soul mate.

WINFREY: Jody admits that her new relationship was far from perfect. She was aware that Jeorgie had a criminal record, sentenced to nine years in prison for battery, armed robbery and drug convictions.

Ms. BOWMAN: When I first met Jeorgie, like the first night that we went out, he offered me cocaine, and I knew right then in my mind, I was like, `Run as fast as you can and get away from this guy.' But he swept me off my feet and he would take care of me and the kids.

WINFREY: Then one day, Jody's three-year-old daughter told her about a special game she played with Jeorgie.

Ms. BOWMAN: She mentioned a bear game. She had these stuffed animals. She said that Jeorgie daddy was the daddy bear and that she was the mommy bear and that they had two baby bears. She said that, `We lay on them.' I said, `Well, you know, what did you do besides lay on the bear?' And she said, `Daddy would touch me.' There was no way possible that I would think or could imagine that he would be capable of that. I took it to him the next day and confronted him about it. He convinced me that she was mistaken and I believed him.

WINFREY: One week later, Jody says she witnessed the horrible truth.

Ms. BOWMAN: I was doing my household chores, and my daughter was in the next room, and when I went to check on her, she wasn't there. I panicked. I got just such a sick feeling in me. I looked around. She wasn't there, and I went to the bedroom door that Jeorgie was in and it was locked. So I go back to the kitchen and get my keys to the bedroom and I open the door, and I just couldn't believe my eyes. I couldn't believe what I seen.

(End of excerpt)

WINFREY: What did you see?

Ms. BOWMAN: I walked in, and Jeorgie was in my thong underwear masturbating on the bed watching porno with my baby next to him naked, where she was naked.

WINFREY: Did you see your baby? She's three, right?

Ms. BOWMAN: Yes.

WINFREY: Yeah.

Ms. BOWMAN: She was three.

WINFREY: Did she look at you?

Ms. BOWMAN: She looked at me when I walked in the door, and I just remember seeing this blank like--just this emptiness in her eyes.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what happened next?

Ms. BOWMAN: I grabbed her, and I ran out of the room with her, and I took her out of the house, and I was--as I was running out, he was yelling at me, telling me that I better not tell nobody, that nobody would believe me, that he would kill me, that he would pour acid down my vagina. And he was saying all these things to me as I was running out of the house. And I got outside of the house, and the first thing that I seen was a tent that the kids had been camping in over the weekend, and I went and I put her in the tent...

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. And you said, `Stay here. Stay here.'

Ms. BOWMAN: ...to stay--and I told her to stay there until I came back for her, and then I went back into the house.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. And then what happened?

Ms. BOWMAN: I grabbed a gun before I got to the bedroom to protect myself.

WINFREY: Because you thought he would hurt you?

Ms. BOWMAN: I knew he would. I knew I wouldn't able to leave that house. And I went back in there to get answers and to ask him why and, `How could you do this to our baby?' And he just started laughing at me and told me I was crazy and that nobody would believe me, and just cursing at me and just saying real degrading things. And I was standing there with the gun and he was like, `Put the gun down,' and just saying all kinds of bad things to me, and then he came after me, and when he came after me, I just started firing the gun.

WINFREY: How many times did you shoot?

Ms. BOWMAN: It was four shots.

WINFREY: And you shot him.

Ms. BOWMAN: I shot him.

WINFREY: Dead.

Ms. BOWMAN: Dead.

WINFREY: And what did you do after you shot him?

Ms. BOWMAN: I was in shock. I was scared. I was--I didn't know what to do. I just--the reality of what I had done--I knew I was probably going to be going to prison for the rest of my life. I was scared.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. And your baby's still in the tent.

Ms. BOWMAN: Well, yeah. After the shooting--she must have heard the shots, and as I was going out of the bedroom, she was coming in out of the back of the house, and I just remember grabbing her and dropping to the floor and just telling her that no one would ever hurt her again and that he would never hurt her again.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. I understand you left to go get your other daughter?

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: You, like, got in a car and drove?

Ms. BOWMAN: I don't know how I did it.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Where was your older daughter?

Ms. BOWMAN: She had stayed at a friend's house the night before, and they had went to the movies, and I was the parent to pick up. I was in shock, but I just knew that I had to get her.

WINFREY: And you, your youngest daughter and your oldest daughter came home.

Ms. BOWMAN: We came home.

WINFREY: Did you tell your older daughter what had happened?

Ms. BOWMAN: No.

WINFREY: No.

Ms. BOWMAN: I was just in a state of panic and shock and scared, you know. I just didn't know what to do.

WINFREY: So then you went upstairs and you all...

Ms. BOWMAN: We went to sleep in my daughter's bed, the three of us.

WINFREY: Where was the dead body?

Ms. BOWMAN: Downstairs on the main level locked behind a door in our master bedroom.

WINFREY: And still in the room.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: Coming up, Jody goes on trial for murder. That's next.

(Announcements)

(Excerpt from courtroom proceedings)

Unidentified Man #3: That's the gun you shot him with, is that correct?

Ms. BOWMAN: Yes. It happened so quick. I was, `How could you do this?' He's like, `Put the gun down. I'll take it away from you. I'm gonna (censored) kill you.' And he came after me.

Unidentified Man #3: All right.

What happens when you shoot him the first time?

Ms. BOWMAN: I kept firing the gun.

Unidentified Man #3: Ms. Bowman, you knew what you were doing, and you understood that when you shot another human being with a handgun, that they would die, didn't you?

Ms. BOWMAN: I knew it was possible, yes.

Unidentified Man #3: Did you think it was possible that he would die when you shot him a second time? How about when you shot him a third time? Did you think it was possible he'd die?

Ms. BOWMAN: There was not a conscious thought process going through my mind like that.

Unidentified Man #3: Ms. Bowman, you just caught this man molesting your child. Isn't that what you told me?

Ms. BOWMAN: But I didn't go in there to kill him.

Unidentified Man #3: You wanted him to die.

Ms. BOWMAN: No, I didn't.

Unidentified Man #3: You didn't want him to die? That's why you got the gun, right?

Ms. BOWMAN: No, I did not...

Unidentified Man #3: You just wanted to chat with him, right?

Ms. BOWMAN: It was to protect myself.

Unidentified Man #3: Why didn't you get in the car and protect yourself? Why didn't you leave?

Ms. BOWMAN: I wish I would have.

(End of excerpt)

WINFREY: Thanks to Court TV for that footage from Jody's trial. Thank you, Court TV.

When Jody Lynn Bowman walked in on her boyfriend, Jeorgie, sexually molesting her three-year-old daughter--she said he was wearing her thong and the baby was on the bed and he was masturbating--she fired four shots and killed him, and Jody was arrested and charged with second-degree murder. She spent 15 months in jail awaiting trial, facing the possibility of life in prison, and on April 8th, 2004, the jury returned the verdict. OK. That moment when the jury walks into the room...

Ms. BOWMAN: Everything was just in slow motion, and I just knew that they had come back with a guilty verdict.

WINFREY: And that you were going to now...

Ms. BOWMAN: And that I was gonna never see my children again, that I would spend the rest of my life in prison.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. On April 8, 2004, the jury returned the verdict.

(Excerpt from courtroom proceedings)

Unidentified Woman: In the Circuit Court of the 18th Judicial Circuit in and for Brevard County, Florida, State of Florida vs. Jody Lynn Bowman, case number 037812CFA, we, the jury, find as follows as to the defendant in this case: The defendant is not guilty.

Unidentified Judge: Ms. Bowman, the jury having returned a verdict of not guilty in this regard, you are therefore adjudicated not guilty with regard to this offense. You are discharged and free to go.

(End of excerpt)

WINFREY: Whoa! So looking back, you know, as I said in the beginning of the show, I have one intention, and that is for other women to see the signs that those of you who have lived so closely to molesters didn't see.

Ms. BOWMAN: There were so many signs.

WINFREY: Yeah.

Ms. BOWMAN: For instance, she would get angry--you know, she just started getting really angry about just different things. And she would tell me that she would be scared to go to bed at night, telling me that the boogeyman was coming in her room. And we had just moved into a new home, so I was dismissing that as she's just scared or...

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Well, let me just say, I'm not here to try to make you feel more guilty. I'm just here to get other people to have a reality check themselves. But you can't get more blatant than the teddy bear game.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah, and that was the...

WINFREY: Yeah. And this is what I want you to tell me.

Ms. BOWMAN: OK.

WINFREY: Your daughter told you about the teddy bear game, and all your signals, your flags went up, right?

Ms. BOWMAN: Yes.

WINFREY: And she said, `He plays with me or touches me.'

Ms. BOWMAN: `Touches my girlfriend.'

WINFREY: `He touches my girlfriend,' which is what she calls her vagina?

Ms. BOWMAN: Right.

WINFREY: Everybody has a name. `Touches my girlfriend.' So she says--when your three-year-old says to you, `He touches my girlfriend'--this is the thing I want you to really think before you answer--what does he then have to say to convince you that that was not true? You said, `I confronted him.'

Ms. BOWMAN: The next day I confronted him. He got angry, and he got mad, and then he started crying, and he said, `Jody, there's no way I could ever do this. I love her.'

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. And you believed him.

Ms. BOWMAN: And I believed him.

WINFREY: And so what do you then tell yourself, that--why your little girl told you that?

Ms. BOWMAN: At that point...

WINFREY: How do you justify that--the bear game? How do you justify that?

Ms. BOWMAN: I--Oprah, I felt deep in my mind, in my gut that it was him.

WINFREY: Yeah. You felt it was true.

Ms. BOWMAN: I felt it was true.

WINFREY: But you didn't want to believe him.

Ms. BOWMAN: I didn't want to--I didn't want to believe it was true, and I...

WINFREY: Because to believe it was true would mean you would have to do something, right?

Ms. BOWMAN: That's it.

WINFREY: OK.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: That's the bottom line.

Ms. BOWMAN: It is.

WINFREY: You would have to do something...

Ms. BOWMAN: And the...

WINFREY: ...meaning put him out of the house.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: Right. And then you would be alone, right?

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: Now I'm just--this is all I'm trying to get you to answer so that other mothers who have been in this position, and there are millions of them...

Ms. BOWMAN: Yes.

WINFREY: ...especially women with boyfriends who--the desire to have the man, the desire to be able to say, `I have a man,' or whatever that is, is so strong, that they overlook all the signals even when the child tells you.

Ms. BOWMAN: Right.

WINFREY: So what did you tell yourself about what your daughter said?

Ms. BOWMAN: I knew that something had happened to her possibly, but I thought that she was just confused.

WINFREY: You did.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yes, and that's how I rationalized it in my mind.

WINFREY: Did you think she was confused or did you want to think that she was confused because that...

Ms. BOWMAN: I wanted to think that she was confused.

WINFREY: Because that would let you off the hook from having to do what you needed to do.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: This is what Jody said. She said, `I let this guy suck me in.' True?

Ms. BOWMAN: I allowed him to do that.

WINFREY: It was too good to be true.

Ms. BOWMAN: It was.

WINFREY: That's the big sign, everybody. Anyone who sees something and it's too good to be true, it is. OK. You say, `I look back and realize that I was the perfect profile for a pedophile. I had two small children and a single mom.' And you started using drugs a little bit with him. That you--because you told us that first time you go out with him, he offers you cocaine.

Ms. BOWMAN: Yeah.

WINFREY: You got sense enough to know this is a bad sign.

Ms. BOWMAN: Know--and then he also knew that I had came from an abusive relationship, so I was vulnerable...

WINFREY: Yeah.

Ms. BOWMAN: ...to that.

WINFREY: But at what point do you take responsibility for your choices?

Ms. BOWMAN: The day that she told me and that I just did not pick that baby up and walk out of that house, that's where I went wrong. I had just lost myself. I had just lost myself.

WINFREY: And when you lose yourself, you also lose your ability to see the reality.

Ms. BOWMAN: And to make, you know, good judgments. That's...

WINFREY: Now this is the thing. This is the question I wanted to ask you. When you were saying, `No way. I didn't believe there was any way that he would do a thing like this.' Why?

Ms. BOWMAN: If a friend of ours...

WINFREY: Why?

Ms. BOWMAN: Why? Because of the person that I thought he was. I just felt that this guy, that he was not capable, that he would not be capable of that. He loved kids. He was, you know, just...

WINFREY: Most pedophiles do.

Ms. BOWMAN: I know that.

WINFREY: OK. I really do thank you for sharing your story. And I know that there'll be a mother out there who will look more closely.

Ms. BOWMAN: I hope so.

WINFREY: And I thank you, Jody. Thank you.

Coming up, when a mother chooses the molester over her child. That's next.

(Announcements)

WINFREY: OK. I'll let you answer that. This is Marilyn. She admits staying married to the man who molested her two sons. And you were just--you were just saying you--I don't know. Do you take offense to me saying you chose the molester?

MARILYN: Yeah.

WINFREY: Yeah.

MARILYN: I know that my choices, a lot of people will question them. But they weren't in my shoes.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Well, I'm gonna let you explain it, because we have no right to judge you--you're right--because we're not in your shoes. The only reason I'm doing this is for all the women who are in your shoes, who are there, who choose to believe when their spouses, their boyfriends--when they see the signs or have found out that their children are being molested, and they stay in the relationship because they believe that the molester can be cured. That's why I'm doing this, because I believe that there are millions of women out there, particularly women with boyfriends, who end up choosing the boyfriends. I mean, it's not a pleasant thing to say, but in that instance, you just--were you watching the rest of the show?

MARILYN: Yes.

WINFREY: In that instance when her daughter told her and she went and listened to what Jeorgie had to say and believed Jeorgie, she chose Jeorgie over her daughter. I don't care how callous that sounds. She chose Jeorgie over her daughter.

MARILYN: I know.

WINFREY: So the fact is that after finding out that your husband, you--for you--had been molesting your two sons, you did stay married, right?

MARILYN: Well, the children didn't tell me. I had just felt something was wrong in my home.

WINFREY: OK.

MARILYN: And I confronted my husband, and he confessed to it. I then called the police, called child services. Detectives came and interviewed the children, and when they questioned them, since they had been molested while they were sleeping, they had no idea that anything had happened to them.

WINFREY: But again...

MARILYN: At that time, Luis was five, Roy was seven. And the reason I stayed was he said he would immediately go into a sex offender program, which he did. I was six months pregnant with my daughter, and, yes, perhaps they are just excuses when I think back. I had just married him. We were only married six months when I found this out, and...

WINFREY: So these were his stepsons.

MARILYN: These were his stepsons.

WINFREY: When you confronted him, you said...

MARILYN: After I got through screaming and just going through all the emotions that any mother would have finding something out--because, I don't know, maybe a part of me expected denial. But for him to say, `Yeah, I did this and I need help'--that was his thing, `I need help. I can't control myself. I need help.' And so he was very willing to go into the sex offender program. And so I decided, `Well, I'm just gonna have to keep an eagle eye on him while he's in treatment to see whether this is really gonna work.' So I'm six months pregnant, and at night I would sleep on the floor of our bedroom right in front of the door to make sure he wouldn't get out. And I'd question the children at least on a weekly basis, very subtly, whether anything had happened. At that point, I guess I rationalized it that they didn't know that they were being hurt, and now it's stopped, and I can keep it from happening again. This is what I thought.

WINFREY: Yeah. The image of you--I want you--don't be nervous. But the image of you putting yourself in front of the door--OK, this is what I want every person watching to know. Molestation doesn't just happen at nighttime. She was doing the laundry in the middle of the day and the--she thinks her daughter's playing in the other room and he's got the door locked. That's a fallacy to believe that it only happens late at night sometimes.

MARILYN: Yeah.

WINFREY: Yeah.

MARILYN: 'Cause I later found out differently.

WINFREY: Yeah. And you believed him when he said that it's only at night and it's when they're sleeping.

MARILYN: Yeah.

WINFREY: OK. So you stayed with him for seven years, and that's how you lived?

MARILYN: Well...

WINFREY: That's how you lived, every week checking with the boys saying...

MARILYN: I was like the house police without--you know, and I--my little girl, I grew up teaching her as soon as she could talk what her body parts were, and, `Only Mommy can give you a bath. Daddy's not allowed to do that.'

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. So what happened after the seven years?

MARILYN: We moved to another state, and then I guess about a year, maybe less, unbeknownst to me, he began abusing Luis. He raped my son.

WINFREY: How old was Luis at the time?

MARILYN: I think it began before his 11th birthday.

WINFREY: And this is after he had had the treatment?

MARILYN: Mm-hmm. And I began to see changes in Luis. He gained weight. He started doing badly in school. He was just having a lot of, like, stomach pains, and we were constantly taking him to the doctor because this--he was always complaining that his stomach was hurting.

WINFREY: Were you still asking them on a weekly basis? Were you still doing that?

MARILYN: Oh, yeah. When I finally started to connect things, to ask him, you know, `Is your stepdad touching you in a place where he shouldn't?' and he denied it, I was desperate. I thought I was going crazy, because I'm seeing these signs and I'm thinking, `Well, maybe it's because of what happened so many years ago and I'm just, you know, making things up in my head.' And so I confronted both of them separately. With my son, I asked him, you know, `Luis, if anything is happening to you, I want to take care of you. We'll go away.' You know, and when I confronted my ex-husband, he totally denied it.

And it was perhaps about a year later; one night Luis started crying uncontrollably and I went into his room and I asked, `What's wrong, honey? What's wrong?' And he wouldn't tell me. And I asked, `Did your dad touch you in your private parts, on your penis?' and he said, `Yes.' And we just sat there on his bed and we cried together.

WINFREY: We will talk to Marilyn's son, Luis, when we come back.

(Announcements)

WINFREY: So, Luis, want to join us up here? This is Luis, everybody. Welcome Luis to the show.

How old are you now?

LUIS (Molested By His Stepfather): Twenty-two.

WINFREY: Twenty-two. So Luis is now 22 years old. And this abuse--how often was your stepfather abusing you?

LUIS: It was pretty consistently. It was almost on a daily basis.

WINFREY: On a daily basis. Uh-huh. And why, when your mother first asked you about it that first time--were you 11 at the time? Eleven?

LUIS: I was--I--she had, you know, thrown signs here and there. I knew, you know--I've always been really close to my mom, so, you know, she'd ask me and I'd be like, `No, he's not doing anything. He's not doing--don't worry. Don't worry, Mom. He's--no, Mom,' you know.

WINFREY: Why would you say that? Every parent watching right now wants to know why you said that. Don't you?

LUIS: I...

WINFREY: You want to know. Because you think, you know--your mother's thinking, `I'm here. I'm asking you. Tell me.' Was it a safety issue for you? Did you think if you told...

LUIS: I knew that he wouldn't--I wasn't scared of him.

WINFREY: Were you trying to protect your mother?

LUIS: I was--I was trying to protect our family. I wasn't dumb when I was that age. I knew how it was living when it was just my brother and I, you know, being so poor and being whatever. And, you know, he had come into our lives and, you know, we had a big home and we had food on the table and we had this and we had that. And at that age, I was like, `You know, if I tell, what's my mom gonna do with three kids and no job and'--you know, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

MARILYN: He had told me that he had read in school that kids that are abused are taken out of the home, and that he didn't want to get taken away from me and from his brother and sister and...

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Did you think that could happen to you?

LUIS: I thought it was a possibility at that time. I didn't want to go into foster care. I didn't want them to see my mom as an unfit mother, because that's never how I saw her. I mean, that's not how it was, you know. And I didn't want--I mean, that would be just the most horrible thing ever, if, you know, my mom was gone, and my sister and my brother, and all of a sudden I'm alone in a--foster care. You know, I wanted--I somehow in my head thought that if I could just wait until I was, you know, 16, I could just run away. You know, I could get out of there and, you know, steal everybody away and everything would be OK because then we could make it, you know.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Did you not tell my producer that you were resentful at times that your mother stayed?

LUIS: After he got taken away, he moved into his own place, and I think at times I was--I was hurt.

WINFREY: That she kept seeing him after he moved out.

LUIS: Yeah.

WINFREY: Of course you would be hurt.

LUIS: Oh, yeah.

WINFREY: Why did you still want to be with him even after he moved out?

MARILYN: I thought that--I guess a part of me thought that he could get help, and for a long time, I did think that. And then from talking to him, from spending time with him, I saw that a lot of his basic thinking was not changing, you know. He wasn't abusing, but...

WINFREY: That you know of.

MARILYN: That I know of, right. I--since he wasn't at home, I knew 100 percent my kids were no longer...

WINFREY: You knew your kids were, but what about other people's kids? Did you ever think about that? Did you ever think about that? And did he abuse other people's kids or just his own kids?

LUIS: You know what? I firmly believe that I would never put my child anywhere close to him. I would never, ever, ever, ever. And with him--with him, I don't know if it was much the molesting, but I think that he was--he felt powerless. I think it gave him power to do that, to take control, and even if it was over a little 10-year-old, I think it made him feel the power that he wanted to.

WINFREY: Yeah, of course, they do. They do.

LUIS: You know?

MARILYN: Well, yeah. And the control he had over me that--you know, he would manipulate me. He'd pick fights over so many little things to take my mind away from what might be happening with the kids to what's happening over here. And he controlled the money. He controlled everything.

WINFREY: What--you know, I don't know him and I don't know--but just--if you were just to look at the track record of a pedophile, nobody molests one child. Nobody does. Nobody does. Nobody does. So the fact that you were, as his stepson, convenient, just was that. You were convenient. If there were other children available, then you could just about bet on it that he was abusing other people's children, too.

LUIS: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

WINFREY: It's so interesting listening to you still, because it feels like in many ways you still do. You're a good son. You want to protect your mother...

LUIS: I do.

WINFREY: ...just as you did when you were a little boy. All right. I really thank you. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Really good. Really.

Coming up, her husband of eight years was one of the worst child rapists the police had ever seen, and she had no clue. Her chilling story next.

(Announcements)

WINFREY: Child molesters are cunning and they are coming after your children. They are in your neighborhoods, their schools, their churches--yes--and, as you'll see, maybe even sleeping in your bed.

(Excerpt from videotape)

WINFREY: When Leanna graduated from high school, she was a single mother looking for love and security. Then she met James Perry.

Ms. PERRY: It happened very quickly. You know, the fall in love and making you feel good and wanting to take care of me and my daughter. And I was 19. It was absolutely wonderful.

WINFREY: The two married and had a baby girl together. Life seemed good.

Ms. PERRY: He was an awesome dad. I mean we--you know, we had our birthday parties. We had--you know, that we had for the kids. We'd go swimming. It was great.

WINFREY: But as years passed, the marriage grew rocky. James was often out of the house and Leanna suspected he was having an affair. When he was at home, he was locked in a room with his computer.

Ms. PERRY: I knew that he started looking at, you know, pornography. And I just--I didn't understand it. I didn't get it. I didn't understand the purpose. You know, now that I look back, he always made time for the kids. It was a good thing then, until you find out why.

WINFREY: Leanna says James was also growing violent.

Ms. PERRY: He always knew how to hit. Jamie would always hit in the temple. You know, he'd punch in the temple. It doesn't leave a bruise. He'd spit at me. He'd spit food in my face. He'd throw plates at me.

WINFREY: Then on the night of February 13th, 2004, Leanna awoke to the shock of her life.

Ms. PERRY: I come out into the living room and there's 15, 17 FBI agents with their guns searching the house. You know, and I remember whispering to him, `What's going on?' And he just said, `I don't know.'

(End of excerpt)

WINFREY: The 17 FBI agents and police officers in Leanna's living room were there to arrest her husband, James Perry. James had videotaped himself having sex with an eight-year-old girl and sold it on the Internet to make money.

First of all, when all these FBI come into your house and there's--they handcuff you and handcuffed him, and you say, `What's going on?' and he says, `I don't know.'

Ms. PERRY: Right.

WINFREY: And then as he's being carried out, he whispered...

Ms. PERRY: He had yelled out, `I love you,' and I said it back.

WINFREY: And you said it back.

Ms. PERRY: I said it back.

WINFREY: `I love you.' What did you think was going on?

Ms. PERRY: I had absolutely no idea. He liked to smoke marijuana, so that was the first thing that went through my mind is that they're all here for that.

WINFREY: OK, 17 FBI agents and handcuffs. OK.

Ms. PERRY: Right. Right, exactly.

WINFREY: And so then what happened?

Ms. PERRY: I was handcuffed for about 15 minutes, and then, oh, heavy questioning, probably five, six hours.

WINFREY: What did they--then when did they tell you?

Ms. PERRY: Right away. They took me aside and sat me down. They told me that they have pictures of Jamie with my daughter and one of their friends.

WINFREY: What did you think when the police told you that he was a child molester?

Ms. PERRY: I thought they had the wrong person, wrong house.

WINFREY: OK.

Ms. PERRY: Wrong person.

WINFREY: And who was the eight-year-old girl on the videotape that got your husband caught?

Ms. PERRY: My daughter.

WINFREY: Was your daughter.

Ms. PERRY: Mm-hmm. That girl was my daughter.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm. So for Leanna, the nightmare was just beginning as her husband's secret life was then exposed. How long had you been married at the time?

Ms. PERRY: Eight years.

WINFREY: Eight years. His layers of lies began to unravel. Here's what police told her about the man she once loved.

(Excerpt from videotape)

WINFREY: James Perry is a notorious sexual predator who for years eluded the Wisconsin police.

Ms. MAUREEN WALL (Detective): We really had a good idea of the kind of person we were looking for, but we couldn't get anybody to call up and say, `Hey, it's this person, James Perry.'

WINFREY: When the FBI finally found their man, he was an ordinary father of two who was leading an incomprehensible double life. Evidence showed that Perry was videotaping himself having sex with his young victims. Hidden in a safe under his house, police found the tapes, pornographic CD-ROMs and hundreds of pictures of the little girls he stalked. He also had a collection of lingerie in children's sizes.

(End of excerpt)

WINFREY: And you didn't have a clue.

Ms. PERRY: Didn't have a clue.

WINFREY: Leanna's ex-husband, James Perry--the now-infamous Mall Rapist is what he was referred to--confessed to 40 sexual assaults on children, and he was given 375 years in prison, the longest sentence for sex crimes in Wisconsin's history.

I hear that when you asked the authorities, you said to them, `You know, how bad is he?' What did they tell you?

Ms. PERRY: Oh, it's the worst that they've ever seen.

WINFREY: The worst that they'd ever seen.

Ms. PERRY: The worst that they'd ever seen.

WINFREY: And so then is your head reeling?

Ms. PERRY: Shock. Absolute shock.

WINFREY: Yeah.

Ms. PERRY: Trying to find some reason, trying to rationalize it, trying to understand it.

WINFREY: We'll be right back.

Coming up, the warning signs Leanna missed that every mother should be looking for. That's next.

(Announcements)

WINFREY: Now that you're looking back--because I know that one of the reasons you agreed to do this is you wanted to help other women...

Ms. PERRY: True.

WINFREY: ...to see the signs. What were they?

Ms. PERRY: True. There was a lot of time spent on the computer. I think that lured him in. I think that got him into it.

WINFREY: And there are a lot of women who are watching right now, their husbands are into pornography, and into pornography in a way that they probably don't know.

Ms. PERRY: Exactly.

WINFREY: So do you see that as a clear sign?

Ms. PERRY: Yeah.

WINFREY: Yeah?

Ms. PERRY: Yeah. I do. I mean, that was a lot of time, and it just got worse.

WINFREY: What did you think he was doing?

Ms. PERRY: Oh, he would just--you know, there was games. He liked to play chess. He liked to install...

WINFREY: And you believed that.

Ms. PERRY: I did.

WINFREY: You believed he was in there playing chess.

Ms. PERRY: Not all the time.

WINFREY: No, you didn't. No, you didn't. No, you didn't.

Ms. PERRY: Not all the time. I tried to make myself believe it.

WINFREY: OK.

Ms. PERRY: I mean, he wanted to lock the doors. He wanted to spend all of his time there. He wouldn't go to work anymore. It's not acceptable. It's not OK. That's not how any type of...

WINFREY: OK. So why did you accept it?

Ms. PERRY: I was afraid.

WINFREY: Afraid of...

Ms. PERRY: Of him.

WINFREY: Afraid that--What?--he would hurt you?

Ms. PERRY: Oh, sure.

WINFREY: Because he was abusive with you.

Ms. PERRY: Yes, he was. Yes.

WINFREY: OK. So you'd resigned yourself to whatever he wants?

Ms. PERRY: I'd still try to--no, I'd still try to fight, and that's what always got me in trouble. I'd still try to change things and make them the way that they were supposed to be, but that didn't work.

WINFREY: OK. Would you agree--because I've seen this with so many women, and really that's really the reason why I'm doing this, because it's just maddening to me that women put--allow their children to be placed--when women--and I'm sure you'd be one of those women who'd say, `I'd do anything for my children.'

Ms. PERRY: Mm-hmm.

WINFREY: `I'd do anything for my children.' And yet so often for the love of a man, or love of somebody, affection of a man, you would put your children in jeopardizing situations. Would you say you did that?

Ms. PERRY: I did, because I should have left. I should have left him the moment that he hit me.

WINFREY: What was your sex life like with him?

Ms. PERRY: In the beginning, it was great. And then that was another thing that I really started to question is there was just no interest. He had no interest for me whatsoever.

WINFREY: After what?

Ms. PERRY: Oh, I would say four years.

WINFREY: After four years.

Ms. PERRY: After halfway through, yeah.

WINFREY: And so is there a discussion about that or something?

Ms. PERRY: Oh, sure, sure.

WINFREY: Yeah.

Ms. PERRY: You bet.

WINFREY: And he'd say what?

Ms. PERRY: It was me.

WINFREY: So tell me what--so he's going out and he's raping young girls and one of them--raping young girls and having sex with children, your own daughter being one of them.

Ms. PERRY: Mm-hmm.

WINFREY: And you--your daughter showed no signs that this was going on.

Ms. PERRY: Absolutely not.

WINFREY: Yeah.

Ms. PERRY: People like Jamie will terrify children to where they won't talk. And when there's a threat for four years of her life of, `I'm going to kill your mother and your sister if you share our secret,' she's not going to tell.

WINFREY: Yeah. We'll be right back.

Coming up, Leanna's ex-husband, a convicted rapist, faces his victims in court, next.

(Announcements)

(Excerpt from courtroom proceedings)

(Graphic on screen)

James Perry's Sentencing Hearing

Unidentified Man #4: Do you remember when you had the gun to my daughter's head? You were telling her that if she screamed you would blow her blanking brains out all over the wall.

Unidentified Girl: I want to let you know that you may have taken all of us for 10 minutes for our bodies, but you never took a damn one of our souls.

Mr. JAMES PERRY: I'm sorry with all my heart. I would do anything, OK, anything. I just--I mean, I would sell my soul to Satan if I had to, to take it back.

(End of excerpt)

WINFREY: It's already sold. That was James Perry reacting to the cries of his victims on the day of his sentencing. Perry's ex-wife, Leanna, is here. For 10 years she says she loved a man she never guessed was a vicious sexual predator.

As a mother, do you share any kind of responsibility for not noticing what was going on with your child?

Ms. PERRY: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And...

WINFREY: And how long had the abuse of her been going on by him?

Ms. PERRY: They said with her interviews, kindergarten, since five or six.

WINFREY: Since kindergarten.

Ms. PERRY: Mm-hmm.

WINFREY: Uh-huh.

Ms. PERRY: Yeah. And that's a big secret, and it comes out when she's eight. That's a very big secret.

WINFREY: OK. Thank you so much. Thank you, Leanna.

(Announcements)

WINFREY: Well, again, thank you to all my guests. I hope that my intention was fulfilled, that somebody watching today heard something, saw something, felt something that will make you look at your reality different in terms of your children and what's going on in your house, because I think what most people think is that molesters are the boogeyman. No. Most children are molested by people that they know, and that's why it is one out of four children--the statistics are so strong--that we hear one out of four children are molested, and they're molested by people that they know and trust and many times even love. Thanks for watching.

A few things to think about if a family member or friend has been charged with a sex offense

A few things to think about if a family member or friend has been charged with a sex offense

American Friends Service Committee - August 16, 2000

To the family members or friends of a sex offender: 

It is not wrong or irresponsible to love someone who is a sex offender. Current medical knowledge supports the idea that inappropriate sexual behavior is often the result of psychological disorder and one that is treatable. This document is designed to provide you with helpful guidelines if you decide to remain supportive.

When the offense is discovered, it is helpful to . . .

• Encourage the offender to actively engage in any available therapy.
• Be prepared to lose the companionship of some friends and family members if you choose to remain supportive. Nurture those relationships that do remain supportive. You need some help at this time.
• Be cautious when dealing with the media. "No comment" is an appropriate response. Be aware of possible backlash from media.
• Be open and honest when dealing with family and friends.
• Recognize that some religious communities do not understand this issue well. You may need to switch communities in order to find one which is supportive. (If in doubt, talk with the pastor.)
• Take time to care for yourself. You come first. You cannot help others if you are exhausted or ill.
• Educate yourself on sexual offenders, sex abuse and sexual offenses. Try to understand sex offender treatment so that you can be more supportive.
• Expect possible difficult or trying times as the sex offender goes through treatment.
• Remember that lots of anger is part of this ordeal.
• Recognize that depression is a normal, frequent response to this overwhelming experience.
• Handle the problems when they do occur . . .
  • Talk them out.
  • Do not isolate yourself.
  • Consider joining a support group to get help for yourself.
• Listen - Listen - Listen.
• Accept the fact that this is not your fault. You probably could have done nothing to prevent it. Accept the fact that he or she is responsible - not YOU!
• Anticipate some "guilt by association," but remember that your real friends will stand by your side.
• Remember that your good attitude will sustain family and friends through these times.
• Be honest with your loved one. "Protecting" them from your feelings, whatever they are, will not help them realize and accept the harm they have done.
• Be truthful with the children, using words and phrases they can understand. Try to prepare the child for other's reactions. Help prepare them with responses and descriptions using words which are comfortable for them.
• Allow family members and friends to handle the situation as they can. Don't dictate their response, but provide opportunities to discuss the situation.

When the offender is incarcerated . . .

• Remember that grief, shock and confusion are natural reactions when losing a loved one to incarceration.
• Focus attention on recovery rather than on litigation over relatively minor details. Don't be an enabler. Don't support denial. Don't bring the victim to visits.
• Take care of your lives; seek help if you need it.
• Understand the prison rules and follow them.
• Maintain your energy, health and sanity.
• Fight the urge to do day for day with your loved one. This can be destructive.
• Maintain regular communications with the person in prison. Cards, postcards, letter and photos all help to sustain and nurture both you and him/her.
• Remember you are the chief source of contact with the real world. Prison is filled with false information and is an abnormal environment.
• Encourage reading and watching news, public affairs and educational television.
• There will be "bad" letters or visits. Don't let them throw you. Prison sometimes brings on such reactions.
• Children must not be ignored as the loved one will be missed as much by them, if not more. Work with them so you both can experience together the feelings and emotions.
• Don't feel guilty about telling the offender of your need to control expenses through limited visits and limited phone calls. Write letters instead. Try to stay in communication as you work through the problems. You need one another in this difficult time.
• Maintain hope for you, the offender and the children. This will end.

When the prisoner is released . . .

• Know his or her "cycle," i.e. the patterns of non-normal or deviant behavior.
• Be prepared for negative backlash which may be generated by notification and registration laws.

It is important to try to gain perspective . . .

• Frequently, family members and friends are shocked to learn that someone they know has been accused of a sex offense.
• Shock is a normal reaction. You thought you knew this person and now you're not sure. Remember the inappropriate behavior is a part of the sexual offender's life, not the whole thing. What you know of this person still remains true.
• It is possible to respect the person and condemn the activity. After all, bad things are sometimes done by good people.
• Alienation is not always best for the family.
• Anger and hatred are not empowering.
• While there is no cure for a sex offending behavior, treatment is often successful in helping the offender to gain control of his/her behavior. With valid treatment, there is a good chance the person will not re-offend.
• It may be helpful to seek professional guidance for yourself and the family. When doing so, it may be important to consider that not all therapists and social service workers are experts in this field. They may not know what is best for you. It is appropriate to shop for a therapist with whom you are comfortable and for a therapist who is knowledgeable of sexual behavior.
• Through therapy you will hopefully come to understand yourself better and understand what might lead someone to act out sexually.

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Please share this document with others.

Feel free to make copies.

Additional copies available from:

CURE-SORT

Citizens United for the Rehabilitation of Errants-

Sex Offenders Restored through Treatment

PO BOX 1191

OKEMOS, MI 48805-1191

(517) 349-7449

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NOTES:

This document is provided by the above named organization to help those in need. Use of this brochure by other organizations for fundraising or solicitation of any sort is not authorized.

This document is made possible through a grant from:

The Center on Crime, Communities & Culture of the Open Society Institute

888 Seventh Avenue

New York, NY 10106